Author Russell Rathbun spoke with On the Bema about his new book, nuChristian: finding faith in a new generation (Judson Press). Russell is a founding minister with Debbie Blue of House of Mercy, a pioneering emergent church in St. Paul, Minnesota. Rathbun is also the author of Midrash on the Juanitos (Cathedral Hill Press,2009) and the critically-acclaimed Post-Rapture Radio (Jossey-Bass, 2008). He lives with his wife, two kids, and dog KoKo in St. Paul.
OnTheBema: You begin your book with examining the postmodern framework. Christians need to understand it. Where do you draw the line between understanding postmodernism and using postmodernism to a church’s advantage without compromising the Gospel message?
Russell: The way I understand it, Postmodernism, is not a “thing” we can use or not use, it is just the way the world operates. It is the underlying ethos of our time. It is important to understand that the Post-Baby Boomer generations came of age and are informed by this ethos (whether they realize it or not). There has been a radical shift in how truth claims can be made. We can not assume that dominate Western Christian ideas (which may or may not be the same as the Gospel–often they are not) hold sway in the way they once did. This is why it is important to be in relationship with people instead of being in a debate with people. In the end the debate doesn’t matter, loving your neighbor as a response to the love of God through Jesus Christ is what matters.
OnTheBema: You make a good point about how Christians need to make disciples rather than just converts. You say, “We are not called to save people, we are called to love people.” (pg. 43) This is a radical departure from Evangelical Christianity’s emphasis on “saving souls.” Why do you think evangelism ends at the altar call?
The origins of the evangelical or evangelize in the New Testament is about proclaiming a good message, about bringing Good News. That can never stop. That is what it means to make disciples. To bring that good news and to remind our selves about that good news and to work in our communities of faith to try and understand what it means to hear that good news and to attempt to live it out. Alter Call Christianity has often proclaimed a message of (implied) bad new, that required the action of an individual to assent to God’s action before God could give Jesus the go ahead to save someones soul. I just don’t believe that. I don’t find it in the scripture. Of course, I know many in my tradition hold a very different view, like my parents and grandparents but we still get along pretty well.
OnTheBema: Your church, House of Mercy, sounds like an exciting ministry. What struggles have you encountered in trying to put into practice the ideas from your book?
It is always hard to continually live out ones vision when you understand that to be, “Pointing to Jesus Christ”. I accept the fact that most of the
time I am likely pointing in the wrong direction. It is hard to not focus on keeping the institution of the church up and running and growing, because I depend on the church to provide me with a salary so I can pay my mortgage and feed my kids. It is hard to grow and change when we all want stability and security.
OnTheBema: Throughout several points in the book, you mention changes that churches have done (or should do) to change the way churches should reach out (coffee houses, worship bands, etc…). Are those “gimmicks” or real fruitful changes that will change the way people view church?
Well, I am not a very good minister. I don’t consciously try to change the way people view the church and I don’t advocate doing anything in the church just because you think it will bring more people in. I think any thing a church does should come out of the communities desire to live out their faith in a certain way. Like, if you don’t have artists in your church that are compelled to make art as a way of working out their faith, than don’t start an arts ministry. If you have a bunch of Real Estate Agents in the congregation, try and figure out what it means to work out your faith in that context.
OnTheBema: You state that Christianity has an image problem. One component of that image problem is that Christians are too judgmental. You mention homosexuality as an issue that Christians come across as judgmental. Can people disagree about a moral issue and still be in loving relationships with one another? If so, how?
I sure hope so. Really what is lost by someone not agreeing with you? We don’t need to protect the Absolute Moral Truth and it is maybe a little presumptuous of any of us to assume that we know what that it. It is not possible to be in loving relationships with out humility, vulnerability and giving up part of our selves to the other person. I guess if you believed that someone holding a particular point of view, would land them in a place of eternal suffering, then I could see why one would be compelled to try and persuade them of a different point of view.
OnTheBema: At what point do Christians cross the line between disagreement and being judgmental?
Disagreement is the stuff of every day living and being human (well, so is being judgmental). Judgment seems to have an element of self interest in it. We are not qualified to judge people and are not capable of doing it with out self interest. Of course we can’t help doing it, but when we find ourselves doing it, maybe, sometimes, by the grace of God, we can confess it and seek forgiveness and move on. I would say the line between disagreement and being judgmental is the degree to which a relationship is strengthened or severed.
OnTheBema: You mentioned in your book that your father was a Baptist minister. How have your own experiences with your faith growing up shape your faith now as a pastor?
I was raised with an understanding that, “Jesus loves me, this I know, for the Bible tells me so”. And that is pretty much what I try to communicate as a pastor.
OnTheBema: What has been the reaction from Christians when they read your book?
Well, you are the first person I have really talked to about it. I would hope Christians would hear it as an invitation to engage people as neighbor, who they might have seen as foreigners. But we will see. Some times I know I can state my opinion in ways that don’t invite conversation, but end it. So I hope I haven’t done that. Christians shouldn’t take me that seriously. But, thanks for reading the book and taking the time to talk to me about it. I’ve enjoyed it.
You can also read my review of NuChristian here.
About the Book:
Young adult pastor Russell Rathbun presents a challenging invitation to be transformed—from unChristian to nuChristian—by taking seriously the critique of a new generation. Where other books bring Christianity’s image problem to light, nuChristian: Finding Faith in a New Generation addresses the issues with practical ideas for church leaders who seek to reach today’s young adults with a Christlike community that is:
- Transparent
- Holistic
- Loving
- Engaged
- Just
- Humble
Pastor Rathbun invites us to move beyond statistics and defensiveness to hear a new generation’s critique and to be authentic about who we are as flawed human beings saved by a gracious God.
nuChristian: finding faith in a new generation (Judson Press)
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